[PHI] Ben Simmons KagsTheOneAndOnly

Attempting to put James Harden's historic 2018-19 scoring season into perspective:

36.1 ppg: the highest scoring season since MJ's 1986-87 season (32 years ago, 37.1ppg).

76人球迷：楼主试着把詹姆斯-哈登历史性的18/19赛季得分秀深入解析一遍：

场均36.1分，这是自乔丹在86/87赛季之后的最高得分。

The highest scoring rate in modern NBA history, bar none: 48.2 points/ 100 possessions. MJ's peak was 46.4, Kobe's was 45.6.

Harden had 57 30+ point games, 28 40+ point games, 9 50+ point games, and 2 60+ point games.

他的得分效率是NBA史上最高的，无人可比：每一百回合可以得到48.2分。巅峰乔丹是46.4分，科比是45.6.

哈登上赛季常规赛得分30+的比赛有57场，40+的比赛有28场，50+的比赛有9场，60+的比赛有2场。

Harden did all this on his usual great efficiency, too, posting a 62% True Shooting%, or ~6 points above league average efficiency. MJ's and Kobe's peak scoring seasons were at about 55-56TS%, or ~2 points above league average efficiency.

哈登同样是通过高效的得分方式做到这些的，真实命中率高达62%，或者这么说，他比联盟平均效率可以多拿6分。乔丹和科比的巅峰得分赛季真实命中率大约是55-56%，比联盟平均效率多拿2分。

One of the few comparable scoring outputs in league history, when combining volume + efficiency, is Stephen Curry's 2015-16 season, when he lead the league in both scoring and efficiency: 42.5 points/ 100 possessions, on 67TS%, or 13 points above league average efficiency.

要是比较单季总得分和效率的话，联盟史上少数几个能与哈登比较的得分输出之一是库里的15/16赛季。他当时的场均得分和效率都是联盟榜首：每百回合可得42.5分，真实命中率高达67%，比联盟平均效率多拿13分.

Harden moved up 53 spots on the all-time scoring list in the span of one season, from 116th to 63rd.

Harden's volume-scoring, unlike some other all-time scoring seasons, correlated strongly with an elite team offense: the Houston Rockets posted a 115.5 Offensive Rating, good for 2nd in the league and landing in the top 20 all time (for the 3rd season in a row). For comparisons' sake, MJ's 1987 Bulls had an ORTG of 108.6, 12th in the league, and Kobe's 2006 Lakers posted 108.4, the 8th best offense that season. These were all decent offenses, for sure, but Harden's Rockets were flying in rarefied (regular season) air.

上赛季之后，哈登在历史总得分榜上的排名上升了53位，从第116名提升到了第63名。

不同于有些历史级的单季得分表现，哈登的高得分与球队的顶级进攻能力息息相关：休斯顿火箭上赛季的得分效率是115.5，联盟第二，在历史上也能排进前20。纵向比较的话，1986/87赛季乔丹所领衔的那支公牛进攻效率值是108.6，该赛季联盟第12，05/06赛季科比带领的那支湖人则是108.4，联盟第8。当然，这些都是很出色的进攻能力，不过哈登所率领的这支火箭确实是独树一帜的。

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[–]Rockets CJ4ROCKET 34 指標 7小時前

Imagine putting up 40+ points in over 35% of your games and 50+ points in over 10% of your games and still not winning MVP.

火箭球迷：一个赛季有超过35%的比赛单场40+，超过10%的比赛得了50+，居然还是拿不了MVP？

[–]OG_pathfinder 20 指標 19小時前

Narrative. Giannis had already won MVP less than half way thru the season.

媒体舆论作怪啊。赛季还没进行到一半，字母哥就已经赢得了MVP。

[–]Zandrick Ellison 512 指標 12小時前

I’ll be honest, I came here expecting to roll my eyes and make excuses why he isn’t that great, but those are all amazing stats.

说点实在的，本来我点开这个帖子是想来翻个白眼，找理由说明哈登为啥没那么出色，不过楼主列的这些数据全都很了不起。

[–]Lakers Pardonme23 9 指標 6小時前

Sound have won mvp. Giannis didn't improve his game like Harden did.

湖人球迷：他就该拿MVP啊。字母哥的提升可没有哈登那么大。

[–][GSW] Stephen Curryraikou1988 88 指標 1 天前*

As much as I hated the rockets with CP3 , Harden should have been the MVP over giannis.

勇士球迷：尽管我因为保罗而特别讨厌火箭，可我还是觉得哈登应该压着字母哥拿MVP。

[–]kyeelee 271 指標 1 天前

I can't believe he couldn't win the MVP either and apparently hes still getting better.

我也不能理解哈登居然没得MVP，很显然，他还在变强。

[–]Bienfuuuuu 131 指標 1 天前

Kobe and MJ didn't win the MVPs in their respective peak scoring years :/

科比和乔丹在各自的巅峰得分赛季也没拿到MVP哦

[–]wtgr23 93 指標 1 天前

because they both played on shitty teams. Harden dragged his team to a respectable seeding

因为他们当时所在的球队都很水啊。哈登可是拖着这支火箭取得了一个相当不错的名次的。

[–][MIN] Karl-Anthony Towns Psauceyo 18 指標 1 天前

Yea that’s what almost all mvps did ? Westbrook’s year? That okc team was worse then this past years Houston team. You don’t see a MVP who didn’t make the playoffs often you either see a MVP that dragged his team to the playoffs or is a first seed

森林狼球迷：没错，可是难道所有拿到MVP的球员都把球队战绩带起来了吗？威少拿MVP那年呢？那年的雷霆比不上上赛季的休斯顿。带队没进季后赛还能拿MVP的情况很少见，要么你把球队拖进季后赛，要么是分区第一，一般就能拿MVP。

[–][PHI] Ben Simmons KagsTheOneAndOnly[S] 91 指標 1 天前*

I've said it before, but dang i wish Giannis chose another season to break out as a top 5-level player : His case for MVP is pretty bulletproof when it comes to the stuff voters generally care about (no 1 seed, insane stats) so I'm not salty he got it over Harden, but at least we can be sure Harden's season won't be lost to time!

76人球迷：我之前就说过，我希望字母哥是在其他赛季而不是上赛季爆发成为一名前5的球员。要是以那些投票者所普遍考量的因素而论的话，他拿MVP确实没得挑，所以我也不是酸他踩着哈登拿了MVP，可是至少哈登的杰出赛季不会被时间埋没吧。

[–]Rockets Trbladeadams 14 指標 1 天前

East is weaker competition. You could argue Harden would have more beastly numbers if the rockets and bucks switched conferences. There should be Eastern MVP award and Western MVP

火箭球迷：东部的竞争更小。如果火箭和雄鹿换区的话，你都可以说，哈登还能拿到更加生猛的数据。联盟应该设立东区MVP和西区MVP。

[–]Raptors Bananasauru5rex 62 指標 1 天前

Except that the Bucks were smoking Western conference teams too. It isn't just that they went from 8th seed to first seed in the league, but that they basically cruised there.

猛龙球迷：可是雄鹿把西区的球队也虐了啊。他们不止是从之前的第八飞升到了联盟第一，而且他们基本是一路平趟。

[–]Wally450 50 指標 1 天前

Voter fatigue is real. Could have easily 3-peated as MVP.

投票者疲劳是真实存在的。不然哈登可以轻松完成MVP三连。

[–][MIL] Bill Zopf FKJVMMP 17 指標 1 天前

Voter fatigue doesn’t hit after one MVP.

雄鹿球迷：你才拿了一个MVP，人家投票人可不至于审美疲劳。

[–]Clippers PM_ME_UR_BEST_STORY_ 14 指標 1 天前

There's little doubt in my mind that it did in this case. Try to imagine if someone else, Kyrie for instance, had broken out this year and put up the stats Harden did. I think he would've been the MVP in a landslide. Giannis put up a normal MVP caliber season this year, but Harden had a historic one.

快船球迷：那我就有点话说了。你试想一下，要是其他球员，比如说欧文，上赛季大爆发，拿下了哈登那种数据。那我觉得他会是大家心中一边倒的MVP得主。字母哥上赛季贡献了一个普通的MVP级别的数据，可是哈登的数据是历史级的。

[–]NBA Twolvesfansince2017 124 指標 1 天前

In my opinion, the media doesn’t like Harden as much.

我觉得媒体压根就不怎么喜欢哈登。

[–]Rockets StrangeMachines 29 指標 1 天前

The media being the sole decider of the MVP is dumb and should be changed

火箭球迷：仅仅让媒体来决定MVP归属的做法太蠢了，应该改变啊。

[–]mizesus 52 指標 1 天前

honestly this the most egregious thing about hardens career , the media continously on all sides criticizing him graitiously .

Hes a phenomal player and honestly hes had about 4 mvp caliber season thus far .

2015 2017 2018 2019

讲真，媒体一直都在从各个方面对哈登大肆批评，这是哈登职业生涯最惨的地方。

他是个现象级球员，到目前为止，其实他已经贡献出了4个MVP级别的赛季。

14/15、16/17、17/18、18/19

[–]kindofathrowaway2019 45 指標 9小時前

Harden said himself that this was a special season but the media has twisted the narrative enough so that people will look past it.

哈登自己也说过，上赛季是个特殊的赛季，可是媒体生生扭转了舆论，所以大家以后会忘掉这事儿的。

[–]Rockets Trbladeadams 25 指標 9小時前

Then media denies they pushed narrative. Next day ESPN has a video, most likely to win mvp next year and WHY. Like wtf, not one minute has been played yet and they know who's the most valuable to their team without seeing chemistry and on court production?

火箭球迷：然后媒体还否认他们操控了舆论。紧接着第二天ESPN发布了一段视频，说啥谁最有可能赢得明年MVP，原因在哪。我尼玛，大家都一分钟还没打呢，ESPN那些人在还没看过球队化学反应和球员场上输出的情况下，这就已经知道谁会是球队最有价值球员了？？

[–]Rockets MMO4life 27 指標 1 天前

And so called experts at BSPN voted Harden #9 most likely to win MVP, when he was top 2 for 3 years in a row. Meanwhile Giannis was #1 so don’t talk about voters fatigue.

火箭球迷：那些所谓的专家还把哈登拿MVP的概率排在第9位，他可是连着三年进入前二的人物啊。与此同时呢，字母哥被排在第一位，所以我也不说啥投票者疲劳了。

[–]Raptors YeahFella 13 指標 1 天前

Looks like narratives seem to be more important than actual output. I love Giannis and what not but it's still hard for me to take in the fact that so many voters ignored a clearly historic season from Harden in terms of volume and efficiency. Like yeah the team set-up was weird and some dysfunction existed early in the season but output is output. Goes to show how MVP voting is often decided towards the beginning of the season.

猛龙球迷：貌似舆论的说法反倒比赛场的实际表现还重要了。我喜欢字母哥，可是就上赛季的得分量和效率来说，居然有这么多投票人对哈登这个明显的历史级赛季视而不见，我到现在仍对此难以接受。的确，火箭上赛季初一度有些混乱，可是球员表现是球员表现啊。这种现象说明，MVP投票通常是依据赛季初来定的。

[–][MIL] Bill Zopf FKJVMMP 33 指標 1 天前

It shows you’ve been swept up in a narrative yourself, a Giannis type season beating a Harden type season is absolutely consistent with MVP voting for the last 40+ years. Kobe and MJ’s peak scoring seasons didn’t result in MVPs either.

雄鹿球迷：这恰恰说明的是你的自欺欺人。过去四十多年里，字母哥这种数据击败哈登式数据拿到MVP绝对是很正常的。科比和乔丹的巅峰得分赛季也没拿到MVP啊。

[–]Lakers CaramelThunder2 10 指標 1 天前

Nothing has bothered me about this season as much as people acting like Giannis didnt deserve the MVP over Harden. Both had great arguments. Harden had a legendary season offensively, yes. Giannis has a legendary season overall. He did it on both sides of the floor. Harden didnt get robbed, he had good competition.

湖人球迷：上赛季最让我不爽的就是，大家老是说什么字母哥不配力压哈登拿MVP。两个人都有得奖理由。哈登打出了一个传奇性的进攻赛季，这没错。可是字母哥整体的赛季表现也是传奇性的啊。他在攻防两端都很出色。哈登没有被阴，他也很有竞争力。

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[–]Hawks diane_young 328 指標 1 天前

People always come into Harden threads with some stupid line about how even though the stats are incredible they don't like watching Houston play.

Who gives a fuck if you don't like the style of play? It clearly works and Harden is the engine of a top 5 team year after year. No one in Houston is concerned with your taste in basketball. Its fucking infuriating how under appreciated Harden is on here.

老鹰球迷：有些人老是点开哈登有关的帖子说些蠢话，说什么即便哈登的数据很炸裂，可是他们就是不喜欢看哈登打球。

谁在乎你喜不喜欢这种打法哦！管用就行了啊，而且哈登多年来都是火箭这支前五球队的引擎。休斯顿可没人关心你的篮球品味。哈登在这个专区真的是很不受待见，真特么火大！

[–]ProfessorPeterr 12 指標 1 天前

if you don't like the style of play?

I mean... that's what it's for right? Entertainment? If it's not entertaining, then what's the point?

“谁在乎你喜不喜欢这种打法”

我觉得呢……我们看球不就看这些吗？观赏性？要是没有观赏性，那有啥意义？

[–]Hawks diane_young 59 指標 1 天前

Winning is the point

老鹰球迷：赢球就是王道。

[–]Ben_Shinobi 32 指標 1 天前

I mean entertainment is the ultimate reason to watch sports. For a lot of people winning is just what gets the most entertainment. Others are fine just watching fun players.

我觉得观赏性是大家看体育运动的最终理由。对于很多人而言，胜利就是他们最大的享受。对于其他人来说，他们就想看那些打球好看的球员。

[–]Rockets Kdot32 148 指標 1 天前

Thank you. I hate when I see people say “how can rocket fans root for Harden and the Rockets.” It’s simple it’s cause he puts us in the best spot to win, and people act like he’s a murderer or woman beater because he gets fouls. I’ll never forget people were saying they need to bring Ron Artest back so he can elbow harden again. What kinda shit is that

火箭球迷：谢了。有些人总说“火蜜是怎么能一直力挺哈登和火箭的”，我看到这个就烦。很简单啊，因为哈登给了球队最大的争胜机会啊。就因为哈登能造犯规，有些人就搞得像他是个凶手或者说打女人一样。有些人之前还说，需要把阿泰请回来给哈登一肘，我永远不会原谅这种人。这是特么什么屁话啊！

[–][HOU] Moochie Norris nonetimeaccount 49 指標 1 天前

My favorite part about that was a Twitter thread i saw yesterday pulling quotes from when the rules changed and guys like Vince Carter and pat riley were saying it would hurt the game because "fans want to watch 1 on 1 play".

People will say they hate watching harden iso and in the same breath tell you how much they loved watching Kobe, mj, or AI break their man down.

Haters stay hatin

火箭球迷：最搞人的是，我昨天推特上看到一个帖子引用了之前规则改变的时候，卡特和帕特-莱利这些人都说会伤害比赛，因为“球迷想看1对1”。

然后有些人说他们讨厌哈登单打，可是转头就说他们有多喜欢看科比、乔丹、艾弗森干趴防守人。

喷子就是喷子。

[–]Hawks diane_young 18 指標 1 天前

for real. iso scoring is the single hardest thing to do in basketball. and James is amazing at it

老鹰球迷：太真实了。单打得分是最难的，而哈登在这方面相当厉害。

[–]Rockets Schlopez 200 指標 1 天前

Ive been fortunate enough to watch some incredible players over my lifetime, but this Harden season was something else. He took the term “scores at will” to a completely different level. I hear that and think of Jordan, Kobe, or AI making insane, awesome, tough shots, but James just played mind games with defenders constantly tricking them into giving him what he wants.

火箭球迷：这辈子能看到一些出色球员的表现是我的幸事，可是上赛季的哈登就得单论了。他把“随意取分”这个概念提升到了一个完全不同的境界。这让我想到了乔丹、科比、艾弗森这些人那些蛮不讲理的高难度出手，可哈登就只是和防守人玩心理战，不断戏耍对手来达到自己的目的。

[–]Lakers pika_pie[ ] 7 指標 1 天前

Kobe's my all-time favorite player, and he's better than Harden. But with Kobe, you never knew what he was going to do with the ball, and that's what made him so hard to guard. With Harden, you KNOW he's going to do one of two things, and yet you're not stopping him from dropping 30 on you.

湖人球迷：科比是我最喜欢的球员，他比哈登出色。可是说到科比，你永远不知道他下一步会干嘛，所以他才很难防。而哈登呢，你知道他的动作就那么一两个，可你还是拦不住他在你头上砍下30分。

[–]NBA erldn123 78 指標 1 天前

I am wondering if there is any other player in the NBA that could put up those stats and not win MVP.

It's really weird, that's pretty much a unanimous win if a well liked guy does it.

我好奇啊，要是有其他人贡献出了哈登这种数据，会不会也拿不到MVP。

说来也真是奇怪，要是一个很多人喜欢的球员做到了这一点，那他肯定是大家一致同意的MVP。

[–]Rockets no_one_knows42 33 指標 1 天前

Imagine Lebron putting up these numbers. He’d be unanimous mvp

火箭球迷：要是詹姆斯拿到这种数据，那他肯定是全票MVP。

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[–]Cold Cocking 18 指標 1 天前

Some people might try to say like, "Well, it's just because he shot so much and had a bad team"

but I mean..for it to be the highest ppg in 32 years...don't you think if anyone else could've set a scoring record during that time, that they would've done so?

37 ppg for an entire season is ridic.

有些人也许会想说，“这么说吧，就是他投的多啊，而且球队实力不行”

那可是32年来的单季最高均分啊……要是其他人有这个改写纪录的机会，难道你觉得他们不会像哈登那样做吗？

[–]Celtics ITsLoverBoy 6 指標 1 天前

He didnt even shoot that much. He was just really efficient

凯尔特人球迷：哈登的出手甚至都没那么多，只是他确实很高效。

[–]Raptors MMPride 9 指標 1 天前

James Harden is a beast, seriously. What a phenomenal player.

猛龙球迷：有一说一，哈登确实很猛，他是现象级球员。

[–]NBA Raf_Camora 46 指標 1 天前

Lol I remember he had 2 near 60 point games in a row and it barely got any attention. Imagine if someone else had back2back 60 point games...

哈哈哈哈，我记得他连着两场拿到近60分的时候几乎都没啥关注。要是其他人背靠背拿到60+呢……

[–]Lakers dcoolidge 22 指標 1 天前

Two 50+ games in a row is incredible.

湖人球迷：连着两场50+就很了不起了。

[–][TOR] DeMar DeRozan DoyinYale 1 指標 1 天前

How likely is it for Harden to move up to #1 on the all-time scoring list?

猛龙球迷：大家觉得哈登冲上历史总得分榜第一的概率有多大？

[–]Angola kenjirouen 51 指標 1 天前*

Average 30 ppg for the next 8 seasons while playing 82 games

Yeah Kareem was pretty good

那得以后8个赛季都场均30+，而且每个赛季打满82场才行。

没错，贾巴尔实在是太强了。

[–]NBA Mike_Soulshock 97 指標 1 天前

Since he was a late bloomer - no chance in hell. Bron had like ~4500 more points at Harden's age and even he isn't a lock to pass KAJ.

哈登毕竟是这几年才大爆发的，压根没机会超越贾巴尔。詹姆斯在哈登这个年纪的时候，总得分比他多了4500.就连詹姆斯也不能说稳超贾巴尔。

[–][HOU] James Harden Atallahnator 30 指標 1 天前

Hasn't even hit 20K points yet and he turned 30 this season. Not happening. Best he could hope for is 30K

火箭球迷：哈登得分都没破20000呢，而且他新赛季就30岁了。冲第一是不现实的，最好希望他能到30000吧。

[–]Jeremi ahtx13 53 指標 1 天前

He was able to score that efficiently without any legitimate high-tier second threats. He has good scoring options around him, but nobody that commanded double teams.

Every game, each opponent had a game plan that looked something like: slow down/try and limit Harden. Yet he still got all that done.

Now just imagine that same player with one of the most explosive players/scorers/facilitators in the league on the court with him..

I get the concerns, but it’s hard to deny that Harden + Westbrook is going to be a serious issue for everybody’s defensive schemes.

在火箭队内没有第二个真正的高水准得分威胁点的情况下，哈登还能高效取分。他的身边有不错的得分选择，可是没人能吸引包夹。

火箭队每场比赛遇到的每个对手制定的比赛计划都是这样的：降速，尽量限制哈登。可他还是能拿高分。

那咱们就想象一下，要是他身边有个要么爆炸力顶级、要么得分顶级、要么组织顶级的队友……

我知道大家的担忧，可你难以否认的是，哈登和威少的组合将会是每个对手防守体系的大麻烦。

[–]jahoosuphat 15 指標 1 天前

As a Thunder fan I'm going to be watching a LOT of Rockets games this year.

作为一个雷蜜，新赛季我会很看很多场火箭比赛！

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[–][SAS] Tim Duncan Odinn21 265 指標 1 天前

That 57 30+ games in a season is the 3rd most since the merger.

(I know this thread is about Harden but MJ has half of the top 10 in that link. Damn.)

马刺球迷：哈登的单赛季57场30+得分是NBA和ABA合并之后第三多的。

[–][PHI] Ben Simmons KagsTheOneAndOnly[S] 119 指標 1 天前*

MJ has half of the top 10

Best scorer ever, especially considering the playoffs.

From 1987-1990 (4 regular seasons, 327 games) he averaged 34.5ppg on 60TS% (or about 6-7 points above league average efficiency) in the regular season.

From 1985-1993 in the playoffs (9 postseasons, 107 Games), he averaged 34.9ppg on 58TS% (~+5rTS%)

76人球迷：乔丹是史上最强得分手，尤其是算上季后赛。

从1987到1990年他场均34.5分，真实命中率60%。

从1985到1993年季后赛，他场均34.9分，真实命中率58%。

[–]Professor Peterr 20 指標 1 天前

GOAT. Even on the Wizards there was talk of him being league MVP before he tore his meniscus in that first season.

这就是史上最强。即便在奇才第一个赛季，他受伤之前还有人讨论他得MVP的可能性。

[–]Arthur_Blonde 26 指標 1 天前

I had never heard of that before so I looked it up. Here is an article from the NYT in 2002 that talks about MJ's season up to the all-star break and explains the MVP chatter.

Basically, he had led the Wizards, who had won just 19 games the year before, to a 18-16 record while averaging 24.2 ppg. And had scored 50 and 40 in recent games. All the age of 38.

我之前没听过这事儿，所以去查了查。2002年纽约时报有篇文章谈到了乔丹在那年全明星之前的表现，并对MVP的讨论做出了解释。

当时基本是他在领导那支奇才，场均24.2分，率队18胜16负，而之前那个赛季，奇才仅仅19胜。他还拿到过50分和40分，都是在38岁的年纪取得的。

[–][BKN] Jarrett Allen Batman_in_hiding 10 指標 1 天前

I remember going to that 40 point game... it was insane and as a kid it was my only real chance to see MJ live

篮网球迷：我记得去看了那场40分的比赛……太不可思议了，那是作为小孩的我能够亲眼见到乔丹打球的唯一机会。

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来源：Reddit

编译：云长刮个痧